chess rules

Chess Rules

Vote and you will uncover!
Funny name, real matters
[ Sign up | Log in | Guest ] (beta)
masros ♡ 38 ( +1 | -1 )
Chess Puzzle This is an old and popular chess puzzle that baffled me for years.Does anyone know the answer??.Well,I know the answer.
A chess game begins with 1.e4 and ends in the fifth move with knight takes rook mate. Reconstruct the game.
yanm ♡ 32 ( +1 | -1 )
hmmm In six moves is easy, for example:
1.e5 a6
2.Qh5 b6
3.Nf3 c6
4.Ne5 h6
5.Nxf7 g5

Final position

Now, it seems quite difficult to do the same in just five moves. I guess that black need to be more helpfull than just 5....g5
More: Chess
ganstaman ♡ 4 ( +1 | -1 )
actually It's white who gets mated...

mattdw ♡ 46 ( +1 | -1 )
Hmm, I can't get it in less than 6 yet, this is tricky!

My best effort so far:
1. e4 Nc6
2. e5 d6
3. exd6 exd6
4. a4 Ne5
5. Ra3 Qe7
6. Rf3 Nxf3#

..or much less pretty smothed mate type effort:

1. e4 Nc6
2. h4 a6
3. Rh3 Ne5
4. Rf3 a5
5. Ne2 a4
6. g3 Nxf3# 0-1

I'm sure there must be a more constuctive thing to do with 3 of black's moves...

ganstaman ♡ 47 ( +1 | -1 )
I hope I'm not giving away too much when I respond to:
"I'm sure there must be a more constuctive thing to do with 3 of black's moves... "

with: I'm sure there are more constructive things to do with white's moves...

For the record, I saw this puzzle before and failed miserably. I was even told what the last move was (not just NxR#, but the actual move in algebraic notation). I think that only adds to the fustration level, though.
ionadowman ♡ 34 ( +1 | -1 )
Confirmation please! After 1.e4, is it White to mate on move 5, or Black?
I've nutted out a 5-mover for Black, but the first move of the game isn't 1.e4:
1.f3 Nc6 2.d3 Nd4 3.Be3 Nf5 4.Kf2 Ng3 5.Qe1 Nxa1#
Quite a tasty solution, as the only Black piece to move is the Black Queen's Knight.
Are we close?
bunta ♡ 4 ( +1 | -1 )
help mate Is this a help mate puzzle?
ganstaman ♡ 2 ( +1 | -1 )
Help mate It's a help mate.
ganstaman ♡ 30 ( +1 | -1 )
wait a moment Just want to make sure: helpmate simply means that both sides work towards the same goal, and so the moves don't have to really make sense (ie, white will purposefully lose this game, and you really can't justify his moves in any other way), right?
ionadowman ♡ 86 ( +1 | -1 )
Correct, ganstaman... ...In a helpmate, the 'losing side' cooperates in being mated. There's a famous Sam Loyd puzzle in which stalemate is achieved in 13 moves from the game's starting position. Obviously both sides must cooperate to achieve this 'help-stalemate'.
By the way, there is a sui-mate type of puzzle in which one side forces the other to deliver checkmate. This obviously isn't the case here.
Naturally, masros's puzzle has to be a helpmate.
Here's a simple 'helpmate' to illustrate the point:
White to play and helpmate in 1. That is, White plays first, and Black delivers mate in reply.
I am still not quite sure which side is being helpmated in masros's puzzle, though. I have a feeling it has to be White, Black having otherwise only 4 moves to work with.
ganstaman ♡ 8 ( +1 | -1 )
ionadowman Thanks. Read the third post in this thread (it's small, so don't miss it) :)
ionadowman ♡ 115 ( +1 | -1 )
Yes, I saw that ... ... But I still wasn't quite sure. It does give us an extra ply to work with!
My investigations into this puzzle yielded one interesting fact: From the starting position, the shortest mate by a knight is just 3 moves, viz: 1.e4 Nc6 2.g4 Nd4 3.Ne2 Nf3#
It also turns out there are zillions of ways White can in 6 moves, beginning 1.e4 and delivering mate with 6.NxR#. One is a variation on the 5-mover I offered earlier:
1.e4 f6 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nd5 Be6 4.Nf4 Kf7 5.Ng6 Qe8 6.Nxh8#
Here's another, with the BK on g6:
1.e4 f6 2.d3 Nh6 3.Nf3 Kf7 4.Ng5+ Kg6 5.Nf7 Qe8 6.Nxh8#
What about delivering a mate on a square other than h8?
1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Be7 3.Nf3 Kf8 4.Ng5 Qe8 5.Qxh7 Rxh7 6.Nxh7#
And now, folks, for something completely different:
1.e4 c5 2.Qh5 h6 3.Qe5 h5 4.Nc3 Rh6 5.Nb5 Rd6 6.Nxd6#
Unfortunately, none of these 6-movers seems to offer much insight into how the game might be 1-ply shorter (i.e. Black delivering mate on move 5).
bunta ♡ 21 ( +1 | -1 )
I have a helpmate I have a helpmate puzzle, it was composed by a guy called Justin Tan, he has a fide about 2200+ or so and is an Australian player, I think he quit now. But anyway, I will ask my friend for the puzzle, its pretty hard to see the helpmate involved.
far1ey ♡ 19 ( +1 | -1 )
Promote? I do not know the answer to the puzzle and have been thinking alot about it. Just wondering if anyone has thought of marching a pawn down and promoting to a knight to give mate?
jjw109 ♡ 230 ( +1 | -1 )
white makes move for black Great puzzle! Unfortunately like many of these they require patzer moves (which can make them difficult for advanced-level players because those moves are contrary to their general play).

I find that with puzzles like this the key is that one player’s move effectively makes a move for the opponent, which is exactly the case here. I therefore look for the “longer” easier solutions first and then try to reduce the ply.

White mate on move 6 has many solutions as others have pointed out. This is an 11-ply solution, 6 moves for white, 5 for black. It literally takes black five moves to get in position to be mated. A 9-ply solution (5 W, 4 B moves) ain’t gonna happen—just not enough time to get in position.

Thus, black must make the mate. The easy solution takes 6 moves for both White and Black (12-ply), e.g., 1. e4 Nc6, 2. h4 Nd4, 3. Rh3 a5, 4. g4 a4, 5. Rf3 a3, 6. Ne2 Nxf3#. Black moves 3, 4, and 5 are nothing more than stall moves—it is white that has to get in position for this mate (the BN can effectively get to the mating square in three moves, but white takes longer to get in position for a move 5 mate).

Note that white effectively needs 5 moves to get set up for mate in the above example after the initial 1. e4 move; thus 6 total in the solution above. This suggests to me that the e4 pawn is key to the solution in 10 ply rather than 12 ply (beyond the fact that e4 “wastes” a move and opens a flight square to e2). All too often in puzzles like this a move by one player effectively makes a move simultaneously for the other. That is exactly the case here.

The pawn at e4 can be removed easily by black’s kingside N for a final mate at h1. Thus removal of that pawn opens a half-file direct to the K, and if the black Q can get in the half file she can give check, pushing the K to f2 (in position of mate by Nxh1, which note also would cover the g3 flight square). The black Q in the half-file would also cover potential flight squares of e3, e2, and a return to e1.

Problem is that the pawn at e7 is in the way, but this isn't a problem if the White Q takes it--White makes a “move” for black by removing the piece. Thus the ply is reduced and mate can happen in 5.

1. e4 Nf6
2. f3 Nxe4
3. Qe2 Ng3
4. Qxe7+ Qxe7+
5. Kf2 Nxh1#

ionadowman ♡ 29 ( +1 | -1 )
Sweet... ... I just couldn't think of a way to clear the e-file (or any file come to that), or even figure out how 1.e4 was going to be essential to the solution (which clearly it is). A very nice solution. Thanks, jjw109!
By the way, I did consider the possibility of a pawn promotion, but that takes all of Black's moves.